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07 May 2017 @ 11:03 am
France  
Please, France, show Putin where he can stick it!
 
 
Chani φfrenchani on May 7th, 2017 03:31 pm (UTC)
There is little suspense despite what the media have said over the last week, pretending to fear a Le Pen win but simply pushing for a Macron vote so he would be more legitimate...

flake_sakeflake_sake on May 7th, 2017 03:38 pm (UTC)
I am of course only an outsider watching, but I do think against Le Pen he should be as legitimate as possible.

The time to vote against him was in the first round and is again in the parlamentarial election. There he should face a strong opposition, especially from the left, so that he needs to inlcude them to get anything through.

But every single percent point Le Pen gets in this run off, makes the fascist dogs all over Europe lick more blood.
Chani φfrenchani on May 7th, 2017 04:05 pm (UTC)
That's where I disagree. Only 16% of the French electors voted for Macron in the first round, so he's hardly legitimate anyway. And he embodies what might give even more vote to the FN in the future.

This isn't 2002 anymore. We have learnt our lesson. Against Le Pen, Chirac won with 82% in 2002 and it set the path for Sarkozy's awful policy and Holland's neoliberalism which both made the FN vote grow much bigger.

They have used the FN since 2002, to be sure to be elected against any FN candidate eventually, and they were backed by mainstream media who kept giving disproportionate media coverage to those fascists.

We should send a clear message that we are not sheeps and they all must stop playing with fire or the whole country will ended up being burnt.

This is going to be an election with a record of abstention/null vote and yet the FN will be defeated. It is important to see the number of vote MLP got, rather than the percentage. It is what European media should point out.

There he should face a strong opposition, especially from the left, so that he needs to inlcude them to get anything through.

The problem is the President has a lot of power in this 5th constitution, and doesn't always need to include the parlamentarial left to get anything through. Holland-Valls-Macron got several laws trhough against the Parliament, using the 49.3.
And Macron already announced that he's going to destroy labour law using "ordonnances".

*sigh*


flake_sakeflake_sake on May 7th, 2017 05:01 pm (UTC)
I agree that the media are giving way to much coverage to the fascists which gives them power because they are feared. But the problem is that nothing can change unless people actually en mass turn to a more radical left.

As long as there is a neoliberal and fascist majority nothing can ever change for the better. I doubt that 55% for Chirac would have saved France from Sarcozy or Hollande. The problem is that in the end the FN is the far right. A high FN vote is no signal for conservatives and neoliberals to stop to exploit the people. It is a signal that they can do it even more reclessly than they thought they could.


At least that is my experience from Austria. We had the fascists in government and when they crashed and burned all their votes turned conservative. People go from the socialists to the fascists, but when they leave they turn to the conservatives. The extreme right is therefore a vote generator for the neoliberals and conservatives.

Going with a green (aka the leftest thing we have in Austria) against the Nazi worked out though, even if it is not very consequential here, because the president has almost no power. Which is of course very different in France, but in the end it doesn't matter if Macron had a strong mandate or not, there is no real consequence in how much power he is going to have, is there?

And if it is about a psychological impact then a strong Le Pen vote is not going to mean that he will be more careful to listen to left voices. It will mean that he will keep his own course as right as possible to get them back.

And of course the worst case szenario is what happened in the US, which happened in large parts because the left doesn't hold up together like the right does.

Chani φfrenchani on May 7th, 2017 05:17 pm (UTC)
A weaker win might humble Macron who has been very arrogant after the first round. One can hope...

In France, extreme right has always been there, since the XIXth century, and has reinvented itself over the time, even though the core remains anti-republic, xenophobic and nationalist.

My take on the current FN vote is that it is 50% fascist, xenophobic and even racist, and 25% a fuck-up vote (especially in local elections or in the first round of the presidentials).

The last 25% part, that didn't really exist 15 years ago, comes from people who are simply desesperate (unemployed or fearing to be so, aware that meanwhile the whealthiest are getting even whealthier) and naively think that FN could change things because the FN has never been in charge nationally...which is a lot like the Trump vote in the USA. Of course, they vote against their best interest, unfortunately.

Edited at 2017-05-07 05:17 pm (UTC)
flake_sakeflake_sake on May 7th, 2017 05:30 pm (UTC)
It is rather similar in Austria. These last 25% are the ones that come from the socialists, but they don't go back. The consequence of this game in Austria is the mainstream shifting ever more to the right.

It the same in the UK at the moment. UKIP falls appart because they reached their goal, but their votes go to the very conservatives who caused the whole mess in the first place.

How people can be so resistant to learning, I will never be able to understand.

I wish Melenchon had been in the run off, he would have been the better choice but I am also glad if Le Pen will lose this run off badly.

Looking very much forward to traveling to France in July.
Chani φfrenchani on May 7th, 2017 06:30 pm (UTC)
Where will you go in July?

ETA: MLP gathered many votes that usually went to the traditional right (LR), especially from the ones who supported Fillon and Dupont-Aignant. The FN is actually vampirizing the right wing.

Edited at 2017-05-07 06:34 pm (UTC)
flake_sakeflake_sake on May 7th, 2017 07:05 pm (UTC)
The FN is actually vampirizing the right wing.

For now. The moment they come to power and fail (as they inevitably will, unless they manage to go full blown fascist on the country) those votes all go back and plus some they never had before.

The European left really needs to get their shit together. The only conservative whom I take serious in opposing the fascists is Merkel (not her party though).

I am going to Angers to visit our collaboration partners at the university there. Plus there is a small natural product conference we plan to attend. :)